Nisanyan hapisten uctu

Ne demis?


Eylem yapacaksan asla akıllı adamların aklına kulak asma. Eylem için deli olmak lazım. Başını sonunu fazla düşünmemek lazım.

Knowledge is full of labor, but love is full of rest.

And so I urge you, go after experience rather than knowledge. On account of pride, knowledge may often deceive you, but this gentle, loving affection will not deceive you. Knowledge tends to breed conceit, but love builds. Knowledge is full of labor, but love, full of rest."<sup>[10]

The Cloud of Unknowing.</sup>

On coming back to Green Bank after 7 weeks

The dysfunctional relationships, the frequent inhibitory behavior of people here are inhibitory signals in your environment you don't need now.

I am settling into 3 and it's self oriented view.. Beware ... Gonlunu unutma. elestirdigin Mark S, Laura modeli olma!

Getting it! The experience of experience.

I guess I finally GOT IT! The Experience of experiencing my experience. Wow ... what a rich sensory world there is out there .... to explore and witness ...

North Node in Leo Full moon - coming back home ...

Another question in the direction of the "smart" question put forth by Richard Thor Alday.

Joseph Riggio, always mentions that "we are social before we are individual."

Every thought, idea, desire, ambition, value is fraught with conditioning. Things we take for granted about how the world is, the place we occupy in it, and the whole idea of self-improvement likewise.

I"m curious if any of you in the group ever ask yourself if it's possible to experience what it is to be free of this conditioning?

Leo Halepli

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Michael Perez I often wonder what it would be like to be something other than a primate. Not sure if I'm capable of thinking on that level.

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Michael Perez replied · 5 Replies · 2 hrs

Biddy O'Connor Possible to experience while meditating

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John Perkins My life's work..12 years with a mystic teacher..Freudian and Jungian analysis over 10..All toward developing an inner and outer martial art blend..

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Leo Halepli Those who do the conditioning are pretty good at it. Awareness & intention nothwithstanding. And yes. Why are you curious?

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Thomas Zakowski Shall I answer your question, I simply can't, I simply shan't....It's simply a ditty, let's not get shitty. A posthumous grin, that came from within, can hardly be mellow, from a round merry fellow.

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Mark Schwimmer Leo, this is another one of "those questions"...it comes back to the idea of striving to know something as if knowledge is something to be gained. Ultimately perhaps the fact that I am, or others are (curious about...) indicates that we think we are "s...See More

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Sarah Lawrence Hinson I have always wanted to get out. Sometimes I do for a little while. Then the fear of being abandoned by society/tribe pulls me back in. Then I get out. Etc.

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Mark Schwimmer Perhaps "getting out" is your way of "getting in"...flowing in and out...
Can regularity create attention and understanding. Is this not a meditation?
When you are out you "feel the fear of being abandoned" and you are pulled back. ...See More

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Sarah Lawrence Hinson replied · 1 Reply

Richard Thor Alday Mark, I'm saying no.
The conditioning is as integral a part of our being as is the equipment we process with. 
I think/feel/believe there is no "free of" conditioning anymore than there is "free of" our bodies.

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Joseph Riggio You're asking a specific question ...

"Another question in the direction of the "smart" question put forth by Richard Thor Alday.

Joseph Riggio, always mentions that "we are social before we are individual."

I"m curious if any of you in the group ever ask yourself if it's possible to experience what it is to be free of this conditioning?"

Yes, is my response. 

But that's not the same as having a non-human (or primate experience for Michael Perez's benefit). 

When you regress to the pre-cortical/pre-representational response to incoming sensory data you may be able to experience it as new. 

Now, that doesn't mean that your nervous system will be free of conditioning, but it may be possible to achieve a state of pre-social awareness. In fact it may be so primal as to be difficult to remain aware of being human as you arrive at that awareness as you are familiar with in any ordinary sense. 

Great teachers of awareness are often aiming to assist those they guide to experience this kind of primal state. 

The only constant I'll offer you is that it will be experienced non-linguistically and therefore apparent by the lack of syntax.

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Leo Halepli Cool! I'll make a picky comment. Why the may in:
"When you regress to the pre-cortical/pre-representational response to incoming sensory data you may be able to experience it as new." As I understand it prerepresentational sensory data is always new, is it not?

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Mark Schwimmer So if I were to ask the question and then go inside I might experience what I'm going to call a "no answer" because the information is a non-linguistics response. 

When I do this I experience a profound stillness that moves me first inward and down then seems to correspond with inhale and upward awareness...it's very quiet. Except a vague " I don't know" sense and then inward again.

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Joseph Riggio Mark, as Werner Erhart was fond of saying, "Understanding is the booby prize."

You can't unravel what I'm pointing toward cognitively. You must escape the limits of cognition, and learn to trust your sentience alone. 

The window in is sensorial, pure aesthetic arrest will do it ... or the ability to merge with what you are experiencing sensorially. Be the tree ... when you find yourself becoming the grove without any thought of trying to grok the grove you will have more that quietude.

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Mark Schwimmer Not looking for understanding...knowing that's the spring of the trap. Just asking of the experiences of others...it's a groupportunity

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Leo Halepli groupportunity :)

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Joseph Riggio Just commenting on your approach to asking the question and going inside.

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Leo Halepli What is sentience? How can I hone the ability to merge you speak of?

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Joseph Riggio Do what I suggested. 

Sentience ... pure awareness connected to intention. It's being without egoic reflection. 

As I am using it the primal form of processing

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Mark Schwimmer "Altered States" man. It could get interesting

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Write a reply...

Richard Thor Alday Joseph, how would I know if I had such an experience?

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Al Konigsfeld I think part of what defines 'smart' is best shown through the thread on Neil deGrasse Tyson. We all know how conditioned our thinking is, how much our society wants us to 'fit in', and how easy it is to just give up and give in, and yet we chase the white whale of finding ways to shape our own consciousness.

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Joseph Riggio Richard, the overwhelming urge to escape the experience once you realized you were having it.

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https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/int/evolution.html

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/int/evolution.html